The Apple (Star Trek TOS - S2E05)

[Hailing Frequencies Open]

On this week's episode of Treks and Tangents, Brian and Jaci beam down to The Apple and discover a planet that looks like paradise but is somehow packed with killer flowers, exploding rocks, weather-based murder, and a giant dragon-headed machine that runs on fruit. Naturally, the Enterprise crew immediately decides this is a great place to take a relaxing vacation.

Along the way, we debate whether Vaal is a god, a computer, or just the galaxy's most demanding produce-powered appliance. We also tackle the episode's obsession with explaining romance to a society that has never heard of kissing, wonder where all the children are supposed to come from, and ask the important question: did Kirk liberate an entire civilization... or accidentally break the only thing keeping it running? Expect Oompa Loompa comparisons, Garden of Eden jokes, exploding security officers, and more questions than answers as we trek through one of the strangest episodes of The Original Series.

[End Transmission]

Transcript

Intro/Turbolift Tease Recap

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Failing frequencies open and welcome aboard Treks and Tangents. I'm your co-host Brian.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

And I'm your co-host Jackie. I'm the Star Trek newbie who checks off on tangents.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

And I'm your Star Trek expert who is here to get the tangents back on track. Each episode we watch and talk about a different Star Trek episode, and this week we watched Star Trek, the original series, season two, episode five, The Apple. Welcome back, everyone, for another episode of our podcast. Don't forget to stick around to the end of the episode to find out the topic of our Star Note bonus episode. Free for everyone over at our Patreon, patreon.com/slash treks and tangents. Thank you everyone for continuing to like, share, subscribe, and comment on our podcast episode, on the shorts that we post on YouTube. Just thank you all for sticking with the journey. We really appreciate it. But this week's episode, who knew Oompa Loompas had a weird, taller, blonder cousin?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

I mean, I found it awesome. I'm gonna do my makeup like that tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

You said for Halloween, and I was okay with Halloween.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Okay, I'll do a Halloween, then I'll just I'll practice outside of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

So it was fantastic. It was certainly something. So before we get too far into it though, let's revisit last week's Turbo Lift Tees. That was where we gave Jackie the title of this week's episode, and Jackie, with no other information, tried to guess the plot of this week's episode. These really are not fair, these titles. So, computer, what was Jackie's guess last week?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Jackie's prediction last week was so the Enterprise has sent a landing party down to the planet to do research because our sensors are telling us to check it out, and as Sulu is walking by one of the merchants, because they happen to be in a farmer's market, someone throws something in Sulu's pouch. What could it be?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So, Jackie, how accurate do you think your guess was? I almost got it. No. I totally did.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Except Sulu isn't in this episode.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Which was like the whole point of your prediction.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

But they still went on the planet to research and find things.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Congratulations. There was no Sulu. There's no farmer's market. There's no someone slipping something into Sulu's bag. Yes, congratulations, Jackie. You predicted that the Star Trek crew went down to a planet to investigate.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

When?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Like 66% of the episodes that we've seen. Not gonna give you a whole lot of credit for this week, but it was very creative.

Initial Impressions

SPEAKER_01 2:54

It was very creative. And on that note, what were your initial impressions for the episode? What did you think?

SPEAKER_02 3:00

I did find it entertaining, but I also found it super slow. Like they were doing the same thing over and over and over again, and we never really got answers on who Val is.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, that's gonna kind of be one of my biggest problems for the episode is how everything is left up in the air. First of all, you're I think you're supposed to make some very broad assumptions. We're supposed to assume that the plants, the flowers that attack them, are controlled by Val. We're supposed to come to that conclusion because they tell us that Val controls the planet without ever coming to that conclusion.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

They make it more obvious with the lightning.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yes, the weather change is really cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Is Val. The exploding rocks are just happen to be there, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

That made no sense. It's more like protection, uh, alarm.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

And then in the end, we never find out who Val is, why those people on the planet came to be there. Who put whatever that energy source is in the planet s middle. Yeah, there's there's really no further explanation at the end of it all.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

And when they feed him, what are they really feeding him? Like they're just throwing packages in his mouth.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, I I think we're supposed to assume that it's fruit and food. It's whatever they have. Yeah, it has to be whatever they have. And how is that being consumed? Because ultimately Val is a machine. And it's supposed to be giving him power.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

That the connection really lots of mental gymnastics.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Right, because when the Enterprise runs out of power, why don't they just throw fruit into the warp core?

SPEAKER_02 4:52

So yeah, it's it's interesting. Yes, and a little love story.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

It's entertaining, you say it is. Well, I mean, it was I got a chuckle here and there. And at the end, does it really do anything? I'm not a fan of the episode this week.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

I can understand that.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

It's very empty to me.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yes, very surface level.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

It's like they came up with a bunch of ideas for visual effects and special effects and wanted to show them off, but never really bothered to put them into a story.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

No, I could totally agree with that. It was just a lot of elements thrown together and oh, an evil dude.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And a lot of, I think, what tries to do the heavy lifting for the episode is this constant return to the topic of the natives procreating and the topic of sex. Yeah, it's really creepy. And it's almost like putting myself into the shoes of the show in the 1960s, it's almost like they're trying to give a little wink and the nod to the audience of, hey, we can talk about sex without talking about sex. Because it's the 60s, it's not 2026 where every show is about sex. Right. So try to do too much, don't accomplish enough. It's kind of gonna be, it's not gonna be an entertaining episode. It's gonna be funny. We're gonna make fun of a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

I mean, I I think it would have been better if they found out who Val was sooner, and then we can see the Enterprise crew teach these cousins to the Oopa Loopa how to be humans and with free will and choice.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah. We'll get to well, I don't know when we'll get to it in the episode, but we will cover and talk a little bit deeper about who Val is and where this whole thing came about. And it's just too bad that it wasn't included in the episode. So, but enough about us trashing on the Oompaloompas before they're enslaved by Willy Wonka and their growth stunted. Maybe that's why the Oompaloompas are short, because you also have the problem of there's only like a dozen of these.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Genetic mutation.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, so it's inbreeding, and so that's why they became short and stunted, and that's when Willy Wonka found I don't know. This is way off on the fruit becomes candy, the fruit becomes candy. Ignore the fact that Willy Wonka takes place in the past and this takes place in the future. They time travel after they yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

You can make your own story now.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah, make your own story. They f Val turns into another version of the guardian of for of forever.

Treking Through the Episode

SPEAKER_01 7:45

But I think with all that being said, let's just start talking about the episode Jackie. Walk us through this week's episode.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Okay. Well, we have like a giant opening, and Enterprise goes down to this planet called Gamma Triangular 6. Because when a scout ship was scouting, the centers were giving odd readings. And so Enterprise gets to go onto the planet and investigate, chat with its inhabitants.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Right. Diving deeper into Star Trek, they Starfleet and the Federation made contact, first contact on this planet many some years prior, but it was fleeting, it was glancing, so they knew that they were inhabitants here. And yes, the Enterprise is coming back to investigate this planet for the strange readings, the optimal conditions on the planet.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Yeah, it seems very uh uh hearty and healthy uh for humans to grow.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yes, and so you said that they beamed down to the planet to investigate. Go ahead and name everyone who beams down. Did you take this in the notes?

SPEAKER_02 9:02

I sure did. Well, I have them all lying around here because I got their names as they died. Sorry, guys. Alright, so our first group that lands is a group of six. It's Kirk, Spock, Chekhov, Yeoman Martha, and we have two security personnel. One moment, let me grab them.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

And by grab them, Jackie means pull their names from her notes. She's scrolling, she's scrolling.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

So we have Mallory.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Okay. Oh no. Because they don't die in the order in which they beam down.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

No, they don't. I'm just naming the security dudes.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

So in the first Jack Spoiler. When Jackie takes notes, I get through the episode and I take like one page of highlights. Jackie took 11 pages of notes for this episode, which is not uncommon. So I will save you. It took me forever to find Martha's name, so I will save you the scrolling. Thank you. With the first wave, we have Kaplan and Marple. Yes. The second wave, because they beam down, they shuffle off to the side, and then on the second beam down, we get McCoy, and then we get Hendorf, and then Mallory.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Yes. They're such a large party, they have to go in in groups.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yes. And weird to do that. We there's like f three transporter rooms on the original Enterprise, this Enterprise. I call it the original, even though there was Enterprises before this, but I think there's three transporter rooms. That's news to me. We only ever see one, and they all look the same, so we could be going to multiple ones. But it just seems weird that they would. I mean, is the Enterprise only capable of beaming down one group at a time? So you beam down one group and then wait and then beam down the second group? I don't know. But we get we get them in two waves.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yes. So nine members totally. And immediately they all have their little tricorders and they're scanning, scanning, scanning. And McCoy's like, this is such a beautiful planet. I really don't want to intrude on these people. And then this is also when Spock is like digging in the ground and going, Oh, what nice soil.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah, it's so rich. It's so fertile.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

And the temperature is 76 degrees all over, even at the poles.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

So do we want to comment that it's weird that the Starfleet is using Fahrenheit instead of Celsius? I don't know. Do we do we want to start that argument? I have no idea. But 76 degrees Fahrenheit.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Yes. And then uh Chekhov, he he like wanders around and he finds these this plant, and he comes back with the flowers and he's like, Oh, this reminds me of home, which is Russia. And McCoy's like, You mean the Garden of Eden, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yes, the first very heavy-handed reference to the Garden of Eden beyond the title.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

And then Chekhov's like, yeah, it's just outside of Moscow.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

And so Kirk's like, okay, stop chatting and let's start going to the village. Because here they actually use kilometers. It's 17 kilometers away.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

So off they go walking. And then that plant that we talked about earlier is like following them. It's very distinct. This plant is like a darker color, kind of looks like a periscope on the sub. And this poor security guard gets shot with yellow pollen daggers, like bullets, and dead.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

And just in case you're keeping track at home, this is Hendorf.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Thank you. And so as he is uh dead and they're looking at him going, oh no, we see wrestling in the bushes, and it's like, is this really a garden? Something's up. And then we have our fabulous intro. Alright, so we're still on the planet, and now we're talking with Scotty. And coming back, Scotty has been left in charge on the Enterprise. And he is talking with Kirk. And so, Scotty, please beam up this gentleman, Mr. Hendorf. He needs to not be here so he can go to the morgue on the enterprise. And then Scotty also reports that there are there's trouble happening on the enterprise. Their antimatter pods are losing potency. What is antimatter pods?

SPEAKER_01 13:40

They would be batteries or storage units for antimatter that would power the warp engines, amongst other things.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Okay. So there's something that is draining them from the planet. At least we're assuming. And he's Scotty has been measuring the planet's electromagnetic field, and it also is abnormal, and that could be causing the drain. Like he's Scotty gets to show off his brain on this episode.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah. I think uh I think I read somewhere that this is the actor's favorite episode in the sense that it most shows off engineering capabilities for the original series.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yeah, I think he did a great job. And the videography, like when he like is so proud of himself, like the little zoom.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah. I'm not a fan of the way some of this episode is shot. If you look at it, it starts to happen more and more up until the point that they meet the natives and go to the village. But when they're just kind of traversing along the planet, just themselves, if you watch, they never talk to each other. No, they're just wondering. Well, though they're even when they're having one-on-one conversations, they're net they're almost never facing each other. Kirk is always looking off into the distance, he's always got his back to Spock when they're conversing. And then when they turn to face each other, we do the shot where it's one person and back and forth for the dialogue. It's annoying to me.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Right, like no human connection.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Right. It's just a weird way to shoot the episode.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Or it can also be like a symbol, like symbolism for what we learn later on.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

And so also Scotty has heard how beautiful the planet is, and he's all, how about I fix things and then I can walk with you guys in the beautiful garden? And then Kurt like shuts him down.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Well, he doesn't shut him down so much as he just kind of okay, haha, that's funny. But yes, throughout the episode, they all up until a point, but early on in the episode, they're talking of they they continue to refer to the planet as this is beautiful, this is paradise. I could spend some time, I could use some time away from the ship and down on paradise. But someone just died. This place is a death trap. You got plants that are trying to kill you. We later find out that the rocks are landmines. You got lightning that comes down from the sky that targets people. I don't I didn't mark it exactly when they stop talking about it, but there's a long period of time at the beginning of this episode as people are dying where they go, Yeah, that's too bad. But it's still paradise, it's still beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

So Spock now is very interested in his tricorder readings because he can see there is major vibrations in the planet's surface, and it's for miles. So we had Fahrenheit, kilometers, and now miles.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Yes, for those keeping track.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

But he's like, they're strong, but artificially produced, like it's not natural for the planet. So this is kind of like the first warning, like an alarm, like red flag, and they ignore it. But Kirk does have two security members like go forward to scout out whatever, like check out what's happening, the villages ahead, do not engage with the humanoids, but and also watch out for poisonous plants.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

And then this is when Spock notices that they're being followed, because I guess he has eyes in the back of his head too. He's like, they're behind us rustling around, and they're very agile.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Right. Like cats. And it's gonna be odd because they so Spock points out to Kirk in a private conversation that Spock detects that there's someone kind of lurking and hiding in the bushes. And then we immediately cut over to the yeoman and Chekhov, and the first words out of her mouth, no one has said anything to her, is she expresses that she's uneasy about being followed and being watched. How does she know that they're being watched? It's not mentioned. Woman's intuition. Great, fantastic explanation.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

But Chekhov is like, don't worry, Miss Martha. I got you. I, you know, we're safe together. He's like totally crushing on her.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, he wants into her Garden of Eden.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

And Kirk interrupts them and like, this is not a trist about the human biology. Let's just, you know, keep going and use that trichorder and get more readings. And as a they also start looking for whoever's looking, they're also on the lookout for whomever is following them. It's like, why be so obvious? And then Kirk has them go into an L formation.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Did you notice but they don't go into an L formation, it's like a straight line.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Lowercase L.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah, I I saw that too, where I was just like, he's like L formation, and I'm like, you're in the middle of the jungle. Garden. Yeah. How about you guys just get through? I'm like, come on.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

And so as they're walking in this lowercase L formation, they come across this pink and tan rock. And Spock picks it up and he's like, oh, it's made of minerals, and it weighs this, and then he breaks it apart and he's like, I'll take a piece for research. And then he tosses the piece that he doesn't want, luckily, to the side, and then boom, it blows up.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah, imagine how different of an episode it would be if that thing blew up when he broke it apart in his hand.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Don't get me started on how many times Spock is attacked and tries and is trying to be killed. Yeah. But anyways, this is when Kirk uh does acknowledge that this is the Garden of Eden with landmines.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

That is the the big line there. And they just and then Spock puts the rock down and they walk away, and I'm like, okay, you don't really have any kind of containment device to put the rock in, and it's dangerous, and all that. But it just kind of struck me as weird of like, you were so excited to study this thing, and now you're just gonna leave it. Okay, I guess you'll come back for it. He didn't want to blow up. I guess so.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

So now we're back on the Enterprise, and Scotty is reporting that the antimatter pods have are completely drained, but he knows that there is something on the planet's surface that is draining them, and he's having this beam of some kind analyzed. So he pinpoints where it's located in the village, and thankfully Kirk and Ko are on their way there. So perhaps they'll find the source.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Yeah, and we find, I mean, we have to find out or we have to surmise that the source is Val. Yes. And so why is Val doing this? Is Val is this just kind of an automated response? Because again, we have to assume that the flowers are controlled by Val, and it was Val that decided to attack and kill the crew member. So it's Val that's consciously choosing to drain the bat the warp engines, the antimatter pods for the Enterprise. Why I I guess the easiest solution or the easiest answer is Val is trying to protect the planet from all outside influences without determining the intent of that influence.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

That makes sense, because he is happy with his little minions.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Even though it's a machine, it's really weird. It has like human things. And so that's also when Spock like puts the vibrations and then the draining, and he puts it all together like magic. And we're back in the garden, and McCoy is studying more of those poison projectiles. He's like holding them in a I'm hoping it's a container. It I mean, it looks like he's not holding them exactly, but they're like in a thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Yeah, I think he was using. Tweezers to put them into some kind of specimen jar.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

And he refers to them as like near this poison called Sapoin, but this projectile's poison is a thousand times stronger. It's like fitting all over the garden.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yes. That's the analogy we want to draw.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

And so Kirk and McCoy are talking about this projectile, and Spock notices that one of those deadly flowers are moving around, and he jumps to push Kirk and McCoy out of the way, and Spock gets shot with the projectiles. Oh no. And then McCoy like runs over there and shoots him with his own medicine. He always has that syringe of something. But it's not working. Like Spock is not waking up. And then Kirk's like, Scotty, beam us back up. We have to save Spock. But they cannot beam up. They cannot connect the transporter to beam them up.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, again, something to do with the interference that is coming from the planet. Let's just get this little tidbit out of the way. Thank you. Why are we not using the shuttlecraft? I forgot about it. So did the writers, apparently. Like, again, you could easily just assuming that there's nothing else hidden up Val's sleeve.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Oh, like send the shuttlecraft down to the planet to pick them up. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yeah. I mean, we had a whole episode where we had the discussion of they're freezing to death on the planet. Why didn't they send the shuttlecraft? And as Star Trek fans, we've all just kind of accepted the fact that in that moment in the episode, in the timeline, the writers had not invented shuttlecraft for the Enterprise, and we've explained it away as maybe the shuttlecraft was damaged in a previous adventure. Whatever. Are we supposed to do that again as an a way to excuse the writers? The shuttlecraft exists at this point.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Can it hold nine passengers plus a driver?

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Who gives a damn? Send it twice. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Like, they're in no immediate danger. Send the shuttlecraft, send McCoy, send Spock, send the yeoman, send Chekhov, leave Kirk and a couple security officers, and then come back and get them. And again, this is assuming that Val doesn't have some other way to prevent the shuttlecraft from landing. We'll later see the lightning, maybe that would prevent it, but they don't even try. There's no comment made of the shuttlecraft is unavailable, the shuttlecraft is still being repaired. So lazy writing, not gonna excuse it this time. I'm not gonna excuse it this time.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Well, I I see and I accept your point. Yeah. Noted.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Noted. Right. Write to the writers. Start a write-in campaign. Hashtag justice for shuttlecraft.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

And we've already established that everything is connected, like the enterprise energy being drained, the stuff that's happening on the planet. But Kurt constantly asks Scotty, are these connected? Is this a theory that can be true? And Scotty's like, Of course. And then he'll like fix whatever he wants. So it's like repeating itself. And then magically Spock regains consciousness now. And he makes a crack that McCoy's potions make his stomach queasy.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yeah. Okay, I guess. Well, if his blood was red and not green. Don't quote McCoy. Yeah. Okay. Starfleet medicine is not fully caught up with Vulcan physiology. Weird, but fine.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

And then Kirk goes on to like chastise Spock for reacting and pushing him out of the way and not just like yelling, yo, Kirk, move. It's like, and then he goes on to say, Do you know how much Starfleet has invested in you? And then, you know, Spock knows numbers.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah. It's like, okay. He spits out a number, doesn't tell what the unit is for that number. So is it hours? Is it money? Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Now the weather is starting to change. The clouds are coming in. We have lightning and thunder and super dark. And you know how they sent the security officers over to look to re you know, see what's happening? One is out in the open and lightning shoots and kills him.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yeah. For those keeping track at home, this is Lieutenant Kaplan.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Poor guy. So the all the crew runs for cover because you know you don't want to die. But then once Kaplan is gone, the weather dissipates and it's beautiful again. Thankfully, security officer Mallory made it to the village, and he's trying to communicate with Kirk, but they're super static and he can't relay what he's seen, like a super primitive vet village, like a tribal. Right. And so instead he just like runs out to meet Kirk and so he can tell them in person what's happening, but oops, he steps on one of those rocks and blows up.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Right. For as dumb as the moment is, I thought it was pretty cool when he steps on the rock and the whole explosion and he gets tossed up in the air. Felt pulled on my nostalgia heartstrings, and it felt very much like action TV show from the 80s as opposed to the late 60s. I liked how they pulled it off. One moment out of this whole episode.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

This episode has like tons of backstories because then we learned that Mallory's father helped Kirk get into Starfleet Academy, and he's like super sad.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Yep, and he knew Kirk knew Kaplan's family.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah, like, oh, all my friends are dying.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah, but that's the most that's all the backstory you get.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

And then of course, Spock's like, you couldn't avoid anything that's happened. This is part of our mission. And then Kirk's blaming himself for all these losses. He should have been back to Enterprise the moment the first red flag flew.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yes, he should have. You should you guys should not have just been fascinated on the fact that it was paradise. You guys should have been a little more cautious.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Exactly. So you've done your duties, you followed commands. Let's keep going. We've gone this far. Uh-oh. Our lurker has returned. Or the lurker never left. So there's one security officer left, and Kirk has him like go around. It's like they're gonna round him up like a cow. And Kirk has Spock and Chekhov like create a diversion. So they're like yelling at each other and trying to be like a distraction. And then Kirk finds our lurker and hits him. And the poor guy is crying.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yeah, kind of a weird. I mean, okay, we it's it's a weird reaction from Kirk. We can explain it away by Kirk is super stressed out. He's emotional. Super emotional because three of his crew members have died. He can't get off the planet. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But wow. Like, you just pop out of the bush as the guy's running away and you just s punch him in the face. And then tells him I'm not gonna hurt you. Yeah. But this is where we transition into the part of the episode where the acting goes from bad to worse. Because all of these pe all of these pe I and I don't want to blame the actors, all of the natives to the planet, but the dialogue is super bad. It's it's like community theater.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

And they're all using like broken English.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah. Children? What is that? What's love? Yeah. Star Trek uh nerds, go compare the way this dialogue is put is played out in the whole, what is this? What is this? What is this? Go compare it to the way the prophets speak in the pilot episode of Deep Space Nine, where they're constantly asking Cisco, what is this? What is this? It just hu it just triggered in my mind how similar it was. Jackie's just smiling and nodding, going, Sounds good. Sure, sounds fine. Yes. That part of the episode was not for Jackie.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

As we've been calling them cousins to the Umpa Loompa, these these people, these humanoids, are super orange in color, and they have white hair and white makeup, like eyeliner, and like geometrical shapes on their cheeks. Yep. Very intricate but very odd.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

What are they wearing? Like twine. Like bleached sacks of potatoes.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yes. And they have the wedge shoes that came back in style when we were young.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

All of them were wearing women's wedge shoes.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah. So what is the name of this native? Akunta. Akuta. Akuta. Yes. Put some respect in the name. But yes, this this one uh identifies himself as Akuta. He's the eyes of Vol. He's the leader of the feeders of Vol, none of which makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

But And he has antenna.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Yes. We we get the notice. Spock notices that he's got basically wire coat hangers sticking out from like the back of his neck off to either side. Um and he's just like, oh yeah, no, that's how that's how Val talks to me, you know. So it's all it's all good, nothing strange here. But Kirk wants to talk to Val.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

And Akuda says only he can speak with him. And then he just can't call Val right up, but he has to wait for Val to call him.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

And while they're chatting with Val, Scotty is frantically reaching out to Kirk because the Enterprise is in condition red. They have a tractor beam grabbing the hold of them and not allowing the ship to move it out at all. The warp drive is out, impulse drive is on max, the computer doesn't work, and Scotty has his engineers working hard, but this can only last 16 hours or we're gonna blow up.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Yeah, and specifically, depending on what source you read or how you interpret the dialogue, they say they're being held in orbit, but it's not entirely true. They're being held in place, but they're not maintaining orbit by being held in place. The orbit is slowly decaying. So when they say they're going to blow up, it's because in 16 hours the ship will enter the atmosphere of the planet and break apart like a meteor.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

That's not good.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

No, it's also not an original storyline for Star Trek.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

I I did notice that. And then Kirk's like, you better fix this or I'm gonna fire you. Like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I will also say I enjoy we get that a lot this episode, we get it a lot next episode for the doomsday machine. That sounds scary. Where this quirky little back and forth dialogue between Kirk and Scotty about, oh, I'm just gonna fire you, oh, you've earned your pay for the week, oh, you know, you're rehired, all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

A lot of encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

It is it is adorable.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Well, we're getting to see their relationship evolve because Kirk and Spock and Kirk and McCoy. Scotty's kind of always like the fourth wheel. But now we're back at the planet, you know, after threatening Scotty. And Akuta, tell us more about Val. What does he do? And pretty much Val Akuta explains Val is like a god. He provides rain, he provides fruit, he takes care of them.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah. I think interesting to note, tangent time, they don't ever, I think, refer to Val as a god. The the natives never refer to him.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

No.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

I think there's a point where someone from the Enterprise Kirk or Spock or someone does draw that analogy and verbalize it that Val is like a god. But Akuda and the rest of his people never refer to Val as a god. There's no aspect of religious worship. There's ritual and there's admiration of he takes care of us and he makes the rain, he puts the fruit on the tree and so forth. But there's they don't there's never any mention of Val being a god in their mind. They don't have that concept of God, they don't have that concept of religion. It is a different reason why they exist, I think. Right, to serve this machine. But in a non-religious way, like humans attend church in service to a god. That's oversimplifying earth religion, don't crucify me. See what I did there? Oh pun.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

They've now walked into a clearing and see this giant dragon lizard head.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

So what do you so you want to call it a lizard?

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Well, I wrote dragon.

unknown 35:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Damn it. Okay. I th I wrote snake. Okay, I can see the fang. If you look at certain parts of like online breakdown of notes of the episode, it's often referred to as a dragon or a dinosaur. I didn't like dinosaur.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

No, I refer to it as a dragon because it has like the effects are like fire breathing, there's red light, and the eyes are glowing when he's angry.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

And I refer to it as is a snake in my notes because if you look, it's got the open mouth, it's got the fangs, teeth. Yes. But then if you look just beyond it, there's like a little off-to-the-side statue that's like its tongue. I did notice that. And and then there's other set dressings that look like tongues. Yes. And then weapons that they use eventually. That's what they pull up out of the ground. They call them sticks, but they look like plants, but they look like serpent tongues. And then if you look at their little hand gesture greeting, it kind of looks like the fork to a tongue.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

And we keep referring to this garden as Eden.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yes. That's those undertones.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

I think that's why I refer to it as a snake, and I was so caught off guard when I was reading some things online. It's like dinosaur.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

And I'm like, Well, he does have like a like a like a crown, like a top knot, like on a chicken. So perhaps that is why Snake does not come to the forefront of many people.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Yeah. Well, I like Dragon. Dragon's cool. Okay, so they meet Val the Dragon and his paper mache head. And Spock is very impressed at the workmanship of this head. Of this paper mache head. You know who is also impressed with it? The props department. But yeah, so Spock tries to gain access to the machine, because they've obviously at this point figured out that Val is just a giant machine. They obviously figured out that this apparently is an access portal to the machine. Fine. They try to get inside, they're repelled by a force field, blah blah blah blah blah. Then they get repelled off and run off by more lightning at some point. Fine. Let's talk a little bit about Val, let's get this out of the way. Because I'm not going to save it for the end, or I'm not going to save it for the bonus episode. What is Val? Val is a giant machine. Several tens of thousands of years ago, a group of people had their home planet destroyed. They created this planet as an artificial planet, and they weren't going to quote unquote let the same thing happen to their as to their old planet, so they created this giant machine and computer, which is Val, to make the planet perfect. Okay. And then they switch on Val, and Val realizes that the best way to make sure that the planet stays perfect is if it is in control, and that Val is what makes these natives the way that they are complicit, compliant, completely in servitude to the machine, because Val realizes, well, the reason why their old home planet blew up is because they fucked up. Right. So if I keep them in control and I make them basically worker bees, they can't screw up the planet, and I will have fulfilled my mission. That's a very empowered machine. It is. You get all that through comics. I don't read those. I'll be honest, I have not read all of them either. So I started looking into getting some some of the like condensed comic, like the books, the collections of the comics. A lot of them are out of print, so just kind of keeping my eye out for some of them. But yeah, as yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Anniversary. My birthday comes before our anniversary. Yeah, I had to. I had to be like, when it when was I born? No, I was also thinking, I'm not gonna be here for my birthday. I'm gonna be in Anaheim. So um yeah, BlizzCon 2026. See you there. That is it, it's that's the most. Even if you dive into the comics, even if you dig deeper, there's there there are extended stories, but none of them give the background of what this is. That's the most that we get. So then how does he make them live forever? Because we learn that. Just he has that control, and somehow that's a byproduct of him having the power of controlling everything else on the planet. But why does he get the snake head, the dragon head? Don't know. What is he being fed? Fruit.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Yeah. And all these people are different ages, or at least they look at the actors.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Somewhat. Yeah. So we'll we'll get weird. We'll get to that, the the problematic part of that. But much like the actual episode, this episode of the podcast has pacing issues, so we're gonna keep it moving here. So now that Spock and Kirk have seen Val, Akuta leads them back to their village, they meet the rest of them. There's like a dozen, maybe two dozen of them. Okay. And of course, Kirk has to immediately notice that they're all adults of some kind. None of them are old, none of them are children. So he brings up the whole, you don't have children, what are children? And Kirk keeps using the Kirk uses the phrase several times, like the little ones, and they grow up to be you. And then they're like, Replicants? Replacements. Replacements, thank you very much. And they don't know what love is, and they don't know what marriage is, and then Kirk kind of explains it, and they go, Oh, well, Val forbid that. Okay, fine, because yeah. And no touching. Yeah, no touching, because that doesn't serve any purpose to keeping Val going. Plus, if you guys are gonna fight over mates, you guys will lead to war that disturbs the overall programming of my mission, fine. But he does say replacements. So How does he replace them? Yeah, so that was kind of this weird thing in the story that never goes anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Because Kirk does say accidents do happen.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Yeah, well, and later there's a whole conversation about, well, if one of them were to die, fall, have an accident, it throws off the whole balance of things. And so do they then get a replacement? Magic. Does and why isn't Val creating more people to feed the machine? Because that seems like it would be efficient. Certainly the planet can support more of them.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

But if he's expelling energy, perhaps it's too much.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

Yeah, so where do the where do the replacements come from? Is there a giant cloning facility under the planet? Does Val say, look, you guys, you guys can't have sex unless I tell you to because uh We need a replacement. Yeah, I was gonna think of a name for one of the villagers, then I thought, nah, I don't really want to try to make up a villager name. So but yeah, so-and-so over there had an accident and died, so you two need to have sex so that you can make a replacement for the villager that died so we can keep peace and harmony. But that can't be it either because they really don't know where kids come from. Exactly. They don't understand what sex is.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

So I mean Val has to tell them in detail how to murder someone.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Yeah, I don't know. Again, we're gonna keep this moving here. They all go to Val, they all feed Val, they realize that's how Val stays powerful. Scotty calls down and says, Hey, just to point out, we seem to notice a dip in power from the beam that's coming up from the planet, and so they come up with this grand theory that his power reserve is not infinite. Everyone think back to the episode with Apollo. It's the exact same plot line.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Machine uses up too much energy, creates a vulnerability that can be exploited to defeat it. Congratulations, we've just spoiled the rest of the episode. So after the whole congregation at the statue of Val at the Dragon Head, after we get this discovery of the drain in power, they all go back to the village. This is where we have that conversation where Kirk kind of speculates over where what happens if one of them has an accident and dies. And we get this extremely awkward conversation with all of the guys and Yeom and Martha. Poor thing. Where they're looking at Martha. Going, well, yes, Martha, you explain to us where kids come from. And she's like, Well, I don't understand. Like, how would they would Val teach them? Would Val tell them how to have sex and have kids? But she can't say sex because it's super awkward. And they all like have like the weird eyes looking at each other. Yeah. And it feels like it's 15 minutes of the episode as they all stare at each other. And they're all uttering these half sentences that trail off. But Spock's like, I'm sure they'll have instructions. Yes. And that is how that conversation ends. Thank Val, it ended. We also then get a quick little couple scenes where Akuta gets the instructions from Val. What if it's not Val? What if Akuta's just batshit crazy?

SPEAKER_02 44:51

That would be a much better storyline.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Okay. So someone write that episode. Anyway, Akuta gets the message from Val from the wire coat hanger antenna in his neck that the strangers need to die. Don't know why it took Val this long to give that order when he's been trying to kill everyone anyway this whole time. Fine. But Akuta gathers the mails and explains to them that we need to kill the strangers. They don't know how to kill someone, so he uses a melon and beats it with a stick. This is the back of their head. This is the back of their head. You go up behind them and do this. Whack. And their eyes are like, whoa. Yeah. Cool. What a great way to lead into a commercial break. These are the fun, awkward pauses of the episode where Jackie tries to stifle a laugh and then she tries to find in her notes where we are. We're at the beginning of Act 4, ladies and gentlemen. Jackie's like, I don't know what act four is. I didn't mark the commercial breaks in my 11 pages of notes. Do you?

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

I have your note open on screen number three here, so.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

But Martha and Chekhov are canoodling in the garden.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Yeah, we get this weird little Okay, it drives home the point of this awkward moment where, yes, they canoodle in the garden.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

And while they're flirting with each other and finally do kiss uh passionately, they're being watched by a young it looking couple. And the male is like, that has no purpose.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

His name is Makora.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

And her name is Sayana.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

I got her. Like that what that I don't understand why they're doing that. And she goes, It looks so pleasant.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Why don't we try it? Yeah, it's very much, it's very much Blue Lagoon. I hope they're not related. They probably are related. That's probably yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah. And so he like touches her arm and she's like, Oh, that's nice. And then he's like, Okay, and then kisses her cheek. Very pleasant.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

And then goes right in. Yeah, then they kiss, and yeah, that's pleasant.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

And then Akuta's like, Stop!

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Yeah, knock it off, sprays him with a hose.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

So after like they have their demonstration on how to kill while our enterprise people are in the hut discussing these humans and not and then not having like free will choice, etc. Kirk wants to like, quote, free them.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Yeah, and there's this back and forth where Kirk is like, we should free them, and Spock is like, can we free them? We have the it is they use a couple different terms to describe it. It's the prime directive. Don't interfere with pre-warp society, don't interfere with the development of a civilization.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

And but Kirk's like righteous. He's like, these humans have need to have a chance to thrive.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

But they don't know that they're not thriving.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Oh no, they know they're they're they know they're not they know that they're not thriving because they can, with their observation, they realize that they are not going to evolve. Val is not going to let them. They can't reproduce, they can't have children, they stay alive forever. McCoy makes the comment he doesn't know if they're 20 years old or 20,000 years old. So it is very much a society that is stuck in place.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Right. I was saying that that society doesn't know the more that's out there.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Right. But Kirk knows there's more out there.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

He's like, we can teach you.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Yeah, we can teach you all about the pleasant touching.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

But uh-oh, the villagers have disappeared. And we all run out of the hut. And did you notice that the actor who plays McCoy tripped over his tricorder?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yes, he did on the straps for the trichorder. I did notice that.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

I was like, oh no.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Yeah. I did notice that he is frantically trying not to fall on his face.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

He did a good job. And that's when the men try to kill our enterprise crew, and Martha gets down. She's like, boom, boom, you're not killing me.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Yeah, yeah. Definitely throwing punches as a yeoman.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

But Val is not happy and makes all the angry weather start back up.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Yes, because the plan has been thwarted. But at the end of this whole terrible attempt at ambush and murder, they not a good fight scene, like the mirror mirror. No, this was this was eh, it was an okay fight scene. There's tumbling. They throw all of the natives into the hut because it's like you guys just tried to kill us. Get in there.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

And Well, they're not going to allow them to feed Val. Like the gong starts going off, like the dinner bell.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

And we have to go.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Right. And we're running out of time on the Enterprise. We're down to like less than an hour. Forty-five minutes. Forty-five minutes. There's a whole thing where they throw all the power into the engines and they try to escape, but they can't, and they quote, buy themselves more time. Completely irrelevant. Don't need it.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

But they send up the coordinates of the source, so Scotty can shoot that now.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Because Val's not being fed, so he's vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

He's vulnerable. He's made the weather change. He's exerted a lot of his energy, so he is running out of reserves. And yes, Kirk orders Scotty and the Enterprise crew to fire the phasers down onto the planet to shoot the dragon head. I have a problem with this.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

It's not even the head, it's like the side of the mountain that's behind it.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

You're really not destroying the mach. You're destroying the machine because you're draining it of all of its power.

SPEAKER_02 50:46

Oh, but it doesn't hit the machine because the head paper mache is like a cover.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah, so you're not the machine ends up not being destroyed, it just ends up being completely drained of power. Because I'll I'll condense several minutes of the show. They fire the phasers down, Val continues to put energy into the force field that's keeping it from being destroyed by the phasers, and then they get to the point where it exhausts all of its power. But the the machine is not destroyed, it exists, it just has no power. And Scotty's rehired. Because he did his job.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

And after Scotty fixes whatever's broken on the Enterprise, because now Val's dead, so he doesn't have a grip on the Enterprise. Kirk asks for an engineering detail with equipment to beam down. I'm presuming so that they can teach the villagers how to be humans and build their own stuff, infrastructure?

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Yeah, that's a damn good question. I don't know why you beam engineers down. To I guess that's one explanation to give the villagers a st uh a step up, kind of get them going in the right direction, maybe to study the machine. Do we finally, finally get an episode where they recognize that this is still a fantastic piece of technology worth studying? Maybe it's just to come down to get the damn exploding rocks.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

True. But also, this is also Kirk in his monologue about you can learn to put fruit on the trees because they're sad that Bell's dead.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Um, you can learn to grow food, you can learn to do this. That you'll have fun, you can learn to have children, you'll know what love is.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

And you guys will figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

Yeah, yeah. He's like, just keep doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

And then they all beam back up to the enterprise.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

Yes, and we have the extremely awkward, forced conversation in the hallway between Kirk, McCoy, and Spock about the again, you have to wedge in the analogy to the Garden of Eden, that the inhabitants of the planet have been cast out of paradise. And then there's the awkward comparison of drawing the conclusion of Kirk goes, Well, are you telling me I'm the devil? Because I cast them out of paradise by ordering the destruction of Val? Well, I don't look like Satan. Who here looks like Satan? Let's be let's be problematic and refer to Spock's looks as satanic. Yeah, it's just it's a bad ending. I think we'll call it there and roll credits.

Final Thoughts

SPEAKER_01 53:26

So, Jackie, what did you think about season two, episode five, The Apple?

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Like I said earlier, like it was it was very beautifully done, like a very colorful, green, lost to look at. So slow. And I have 11 pages of notes because I wrote everything down. But I have so many questions after, and especially as someone who doesn't know like the backstories like you, or cannot like imagine weird things that come together and make perfect outcomes, it's very hard for me to understand everything and connect it to like another story.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

Sure. And there's even knowing some of the backstory and even going and reading up briefly on some of those non-canon comic books and trying to get more information and draw more of a conclusion, there's really still not a lot. There's there's not tons of comics about Val. There's like two, I think, and there's a whole just a whole gap as to what this is, but that's not uncommon in Star Trek where they don't follow up on a lot of things. And but and that just is frustrating in this part of Star Trek and the series of Star Trek is everything is so confined to each episode, and there's not an overarching story to follow. Every episode is its own story, and some of them are great, and some of them stand aw they're all individual short stories, and some of them are fantastic, and some of them are flops. And that's why I think Star Trek eventually evolves later episodes of The Next Generation, certainly starting at DS9, where you have overarching story plots that go across entire seasons or entire series, so that you do feel like it's connected. You do feel more invested instead of, hey, it's another episode where they go to another planet and they investigate another weird thing. But to my final thoughts to the episode, okay, cool. It's got some fun special effects, it's got some fun ideas, it's not the best, it's not the most well executed, it's just there.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

At least it's not a green person. I like the colors.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Okay. And so again, don't forget to tune in to our Patreon when you're done listening to this episode, patreon.com slash treks and tangents, where we'll post our Star Note bonus episode where we'll take a deeper dive into a question on the episode. This week's question is going to be did the Enterprise save this society or destroy it? I think we'll also kind of make fun of the episode a little bit more, but join us over on Patreon after this episode and listen to us.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

So many options to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Yeah, kind of kind of break this episode down a little bit further. But before you go, let's round out our final thoughts to the episode by sharing our favorite quote from the episode and why. Jackie, what's your favorite quote from the episode?

SPEAKER_02 56:31

I chose kind of another creepy one, and it's a cuda when he is explaining to the followers that Val told him the strangers must die. And he says, It is a thing to do, like feeding Val. He compares murder to feeding Val. Like they have no idea the consequences of taking a life or doing anything past that. It's it's wild. I just thought that it would be it's kind of like a back looking into the episode, just how the villagers just don't understand like right and wrong, and everything is the same weight. And if the one who keeps them safe says jump, how high?

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Okay. Well, my favorite quote's gonna be uh I've got two. Uh again, just because it's kind of a ridiculous episode, let's just call it what it is, it's a ridiculous episode. But uh my first favorite quote is uh Kirk saying, The Garden of Eden with landmines, that's uh just a fun That was fun. That's a fun favorite quote. That's kind of uh I wish they would have I don't wish they would have gotten more into the heavy-handedness references to the Garden of Eden. Right. But I enjoyed that particular reference, and I think that was good. Um I also again just like the idea of the moment they discover that the they don't have kids, they don't have sex, and McCoy goes, Well, there goes paradise. Yes. McCoy our underrated hound dog. Love them. So, but those are gonna be our quotes. I've got some, as I always do, this is Jackie laughing in the background.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

I love McCoy.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

Yeah, our

Tribble Tidbits

SPEAKER_01 58:16

triple tidbits for the episode are interesting facts. I have to stop myself. We don't call them fun facts anymore because some of them are not fun. But Jackie, why do we call them triple tidbits? Because tribles are amazing. Jackie. Yeah, tribles are are fun, they're not fun, they're just kind of in between.

SPEAKER_02 58:32

But I was watching a show and they had like these little fuzzy things, and they reminded me of a triple, but it was called a nubbin tangent.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

What show?

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Sanctuary.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

I haven't watched that yet.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

It's super fun.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Bonus bonus episodes coming to our Patreon on Sanctuary. Trible tidbits. We have so much to record today. First airing, October 13th, 1967. This is gonna be the first episode that Chekhov's first name, Pavel, is first established.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

It's Pavo she called him Pav, so I was like, something.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

Yeah, but his his full first name. Yeah. So um and his hair looked normal. Thank you. Yeah, I noticed it. This is gonna be the first episode where he shows up without wearing his wing. His wig. His hair is grown out, so.

SPEAKER_02 59:21

I I clocked it. What do the kids do now? With their fingers and thumb.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

I don't know. Uh nope. Celeste Yarnell is the actress who played Yeoman Martha Landon, and she was constantly pranked on set by Leonard Nimoy. I can see that. Her and uh William Shatner also dated briefly for a time, but they they had an attraction, they recognized it during the filming of the episode. She was married at the time, so they didn't act on it.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

Scandal!

SPEAKER_01 59:54

But in the years, in the short years after the airing of the episode, as the television series was wrapping up, because again it's only three years, three seasons, she gets a divorce. They do date briefly for a time, but it's after the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

Okay, that's kind of cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

Uh the ref this is gonna be my favorite quote or my favorite triple tidbit for the episode, just because it's fun. The reference of the title, the apple, is an obvious nod to the story of the Garden of Eden. There's many references to the Garden of Eden.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

But they never have an apple.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

Oh, look at me and being all on these things.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

The Bible never specifically refers to the fruit that's an apple. Adam and Eve eat in the garden as an apple. It is only referred to as a fruit. Now, do you know where the reference and how it comes tied to the apple?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

So I don't speak Latin, but as many things in the Bible, when you translate it from one language to another, things change.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

So someone translated a version of the Bible into Latin. There is a Latin word that means there's there's two Latin words that are extremely similar. One means apple and one means evil. And so when he used that word, it kind of planted that seed, so to speak, to leading it toward the apple. And then the a lot of Renaissance art depicting the garden of that is how it kind of comes into popular culture for lack of a better term, that is referred to as an apple.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

The script for this episode originally called for Val's dragon head to be destroyed by the Phasers. That would make sense. But the prop department rebelled and said, no, we put too much time into this. And so they weren't allowed to destroy it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

Does he come back later on as a different character?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

No, no, we know. I have no idea where Val is. The scene that we mentioned in the hut where the crew are sitting around and trying to discuss how they have children, how they would come about doing that, took forever to film because they kept laughing? Yes. Shatner, McCoy, and Martha. Nemoy all continued to make inappropriate comments to crack everyone up.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

Well, you can see it in the in the recording, like they're all holding back laughter as they're talking about this awkward subject. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:32

And much to the much to the detriment, uh, the network sensors were always on set at this time. And so they're monitoring how things are being filmed because they don't want to get an episode and go, wait a minute, we can't air this, and we don't have time to go back and reshoot it. So when a network picked up a show they at this time in the 60s and whenever, they would have sensors on set to monitor and make sure that everything was on the up and up. And yeah, they kept making inappropriate comments and the sensors having to keep shutting down this the shooting to be like, we can't use that take, we have to do another take. So it took forever to do it. So those are gonna be your triple tidbits.

Episode Ranking

SPEAKER_01 1:03:16

And this is where we will share our episode ranking. We're gonna pretend that this episode is a member of a crew of our fictitious starship, and we will assign it a Starfleet rank. A higher rank means we not only found the episode more entertaining, but we find the episode to be a more uh more important member of our crew. And of course, the opposite is true. A lower rank means we weren't as entertained by the episode, and it's a more disposable member of our crew. Our ranks starting at the bottom are our enlisted members, our ensigns, our lieutenant junior grades, our lieutenants. We can have an unlimited number of episodes ranked in those. But then we have our officers, our lieutenant commander, which we can have seven, our commanders, five, a captain, we can have one, and an admiral, a perfect episode is gonna be one. If none of that makes any sense, we will post a graphical representation of our rankings over on our Patreon, patreon.com slash trucks and tangents, and that'll be live on Wednesday, the day after this episode goes live. Jackie, for your starship, the USS Luminaria, what rank do you assign this episode?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

I have to put it in the ensign.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

No why?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

It's just maybe it can go up later on, but right now it just it kind of flopped. It was so long, and I didn't under I didn't understand anything while I was watching it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

And I think that you have I have to understand something to be able to go higher on my board. Okay, so it's gonna it's gonna take the rank of Ensign and it's gonna be right there next to the changeling appropriate. Friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Yes. Machines, machine, machine friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

No, no. Besties. I'm not gonna get into that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

The three of them can work together.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

Nope. So from my starship, the USS Comet.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:05

Look at your graph, it's so cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

Uh it's it's very evenly spaced at the moment. I really don't want to give it an ensign, but I'm trying to come up with reasons to bump it up into the lieutenant junior grade, but I can't. You want to, but eh There's is it entertaining? Sure. But for every entertaining moment, it's outweighed by a non-entertaining moment. The conversation about the villagers, the natives of the planet having sex is only funny when you know the context of the behind the scenes and the outtakes. The guy stepping on the rock and exploding is entertaining, but then you have to suffer through everything else. You have to suffer through the bad dialogue of the natives. What is this? I can't do it. I gotta give it an ensign. It's gonna be gonna be the bottom of the rank. This episode. Needs some work and that is where it'll have to live.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Maybe it was just like a spacer while they rested and worked on something else.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

They had more props to make.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

Yes. So that's gonna be it. We're both gonna decide to give this episode a rank of Ensign. And again, if none of that makes sense, pop over to our Patreon, patreon.com slash Treks and Tangents. Free for everyone to view our episode ranking. And again, remember we'll post our bonus star note episode as well. Just for comparison over an IMDB, as of this recording, the Apple Jackie, take a guess. What do you think the Apple ranks on IMDB? A six. 6.4. Oh, look at me. I'm doing good today. Out of 10. It's not a I'm on point. It's not a well-liked episode. We'll

Turbolift Tease

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

be back next week to trek through another episode, but before we go, we'll give our turboliftees or elevator pitch to next week's episode's plot. I'll give Jackie the title of the next episode, and Jackie, with no other information, will give a brief pitch or guess to the plot. Jackie, next week's episode is entitled The Doomsday Machine.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:14

Uh-oh, we come across Trelean again, and this time he has grown up and he is angry. And so instead of this tiny little machine behind the mirror that he made, we have a giant one that he has left on. And we have to figure out how to turn it off.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

And tune in next week to find out how accurate Jackie's guess is. If you want more information, you can find and directly support our podcast on Patreon, patreon.com/slash treks and tangents. As I mentioned, multiple times we will post a free Star Note bonus episode where we dive into deeper topics and just kind of joke around and mess around and have a less structured format for the episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

Unscripted.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

Yes. Uh free for all of the all of the people who follow our Patreon. We post the graphical representation of the rankings. Again, free for everyone to view. For our Patreon supporters, we do a deeper dive once a month into the animated series, Star Trek. We have all of our test episodes that we recorded that are based on fringe and sg1. So pop over and listen to that. Maybe someday we'll continue those series when we have time.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Don't judge us at the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

No, we have come a long way. But uh besides that, you can also follow us on x.com uh at treks underscore tangents. We're also on Instagram and Blue Sky as Trux and Tangents. Jackie, where can people find you? And what are you up to?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

I am hanging out on Instagram as Jaboom J I B B O O M. I need to make like a like a song.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

You say that every week.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

Well, I've been busy. So I just had my hip replaced and I feel like an old person. So I'm trying to stay young by posting lots and lots of things about my recovery and what I've been going through. And of course, I also have disability advocacy, weight loss, um, the service dogs I have, and plus I always have some crazy makeup going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:17

Alright. And you can watch me stream a variety of video games over at twitch.tv slash piratepoundtown. I'm on YouTube where I post video games and other random uh content over on YouTube at PiratePoundtown. And some of my coin collecting and other hobby content is over at Pirate Treasure Hunting. I post socially on Blue Sky at Pirate Poundtown, and I can be found on Instagram under Pineapple Cannibal because I am proudly banned from Instagram as PiratePoundtown. Links to all social media mentioned can be found in the episode description. Thank you everyone for tuning in to this week's episode. We hope you had fun like we did, and we will see you all next week.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

And be sure to joke around with really weird jokes. End transmission